We Give Women Respect…
Posted by Moiz Khan in ReligionDec 25th, 2008 | 6 responsesThat is a statement that is heard around the world, and spoken mostly by Muslim men, though sometimes even Muslim women. As if respect is something granted by the oppressor to the oppressed. My reply to that ridiculous statement always has been, “sure you do, just like the slave owners gave freedom to their slaves.” Even if the religion does (which it does not), the religious certainly do not. In fact, they do just the opposite, instead of respect they belittle the mental faculties of women.
In a recent case of this hypocrisy (there are quite a few), a Saudi Court has denied a divorce to an EIGHT year old child. The child apparently does not know she has already been married to a FIFTY-EIGHT year old man. Apparently the father, a despicable excuse for a human being, sold his daughter for roughly $7350. The father is in debt and recieved the money ahead of time, essentially selling the right to rape his child to fix his financial situation. By the time the marriage is consumated, the girl will be 18, and her “husband” will be 68.
People would like to say this is merely something based upon the culture of the Middle East, and nothing more. Well, considering the precedent for such things was established by the Islamic Prophet Mohammed and his marriage to a 6 year old child, it is no surprise that his followers would continue the tradition. It seems that it is impossible to fight such a precedent, as fighting the precedent is tantamount to fighting Islam itself. I guess if that is the case, it is a good thing that my goal is dethrone god and fight all kinds religious belief.
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6 Responses to “We Give Women Respect…”
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When culture and religion merge, such is the case in a theocracy, I'm not sure it matters anymore which is the primarily culprit for this sort of thing. Both need to change.
Let us hope the old f*cker dies before he gets the chance
I wanted to go ahead and comment on this particular post. I too heard that story, as well as the story of so many other children being sold into marriage at impossibly young ages. It happens all over the world, particularly in regions where there is widespread poverty, or as in this case, in circumstances where a particular individual finds himself in dire need of money. A child bride can be very lucrative.
However what I find interesting is your analysis of the situation and the subsequent conclusion you came upon. The history of marriage has been one that has shifted and evolved since its conception. Your views on marriage, as a modern American, are vastly different from the views of the Europeans who settled here hundreds of years ago. Your definition is different from the Kings of Europe, the Emperors of China, and the Pharaohs of Egypt.
Your definition has been formed and perfected by you as an individual. Marriage is not used as a means of unifying tribes, (as the marriage of Prophet Mohammad intended to do) or for the political convenience and the prevention of war and international tension (as the marriage of numerous Princes and Princesses who were also child brides intended to do). Earlier in American history itself, the age of consent for marriage was a mere 9 years.
The logical conclusion? That marriage has long been used for reasons besides love and that its definition has evolved from region to region and century to century. This sick father used his daughter for money. Another sick father in Mexico did the same thing around the same time. He did not use Prophet Mohammad as a crutch for his perverse deeds.
You however decide that the logical conclusion is that Islam is evil. Your simplistic analysis and your weak conclusion speak for themselves. You will find many child brides in impoverished areas of the world, because they are poor and their poverty has made desperate douche bags out of them. People and regions who enjoy stability and peace will allow the younger generation to marry for the sake of love, and then divorce for the sake of convenience.
You however decide that the logical conclusion is that Islam is evil. Your simplistic analysis and your weak conclusion speak for themselves. You will find many child brides in impoverished areas of the world, because they are poor and their poverty has made desperate douche bags out of them. People and regions who enjoy stability and peace will allow the younger generation to marry for the sake of love, and then divorce for the sake of convenience.
I think you oversimplify my position. My stance is that, Islam has provided the basis upon which men can justify their actions very easily. When a man does it in Mexico, he has no argument to make other than I suppose poverty. When a man in the Middle East does it, he can easily state that “I am doing this on the basis of that the Prophet Muhammad did it, and bang, loads of people won’t persecute him. Religion and specifically Islam isn’t the root of all evil, but rather the fuel that makes evil actions much worse.
I note that you also are revolted by modern child brides. Well, what substantial difference is there between modern ones and the ones during Muhammad’s time? If your response is simply because it was a political marriage… thats not good enough.
In the words of Thoreau: “Simplify, simplify, simplify!”
I stated that a man in Mexico would use his poverty as a crutch rather than his religious views. You think his doing so will not elicit some form of sympathy from people, especially if he was genuinely in a state of poverty? We can have an ethical debate about whether or not this justifies his actions (though I think we might actually agree on that point) but we have to accept that circumstances play a role.
So this man decided to use a Prophet to justify the selling of a child to a pedophile. It is still a crutch, still a tool used to elicit sympathy from those who are too ignorant or unwilling to think critically about this issue.
My point was that people use these things as crutches. Whether it is religion or circumstance, these are tools that people use to shield themselves from the greater ethical debate on an issue and get what they want.
I think you are insightful enough to see that while a Saudi man may look at this and nod his head approvingly, sure of the infallibility and strength of his own position, many more muslims around the world will be revolted by the way this father conducted himself. We all bring our experiences to a situation; we bring our biases, our own unique perception that is tainted by our own unique observations.
This is part of the reason I referenced some of the historical uses of marriage. Whether or not it fits into our current perception of marriage, there is no doubt that it was a once a political tool. So while child brides do revolt me, I accept that my judgment is based on who I am, where I have grown up, the places I have chosen to educate myself and essentially the world as I see it.
Btw I realize the irony of using Thoreau’s quote at the beginning of this comment and yet being a tad convoluted throughout
My point was that people use these things as crutches. Whether it is religion or circumstance, these are tools that people use to shield themselves from the greater ethical debate on an issue and get what they want.
Recognizing that it is a crutch is a good thing. Just because there are other crutches, it doesn’t lessen the power or influence of religion.
This is part of the reason I referenced some of the historical uses of marriage. Whether or not it fits into our current perception of marriage, there is no doubt that it was a once a political tool. So while child brides do revolt me, I accept that my judgment is based on who I am, where I have grown up, the places I have chosen to educate myself and essentially the world as I see it.
But, unless you think that your judgment is entirely relative (thereby close to meaningless), and that it was at once right or acceptable to have child brides.
On other hand, you can hold the position (that I do) that child brides is inherently immoral, and regardless of the motivation or situation, it is morally disgusting.
Let us also not forget the Islam regards Muhammed as the model human being. So, if a man wanted a child bride for political reasons, would you say that is moral?